In this BitCorner podcast episode, host Juan Cienfuegos sits down with Julian Liniger, CEO and co‑founder of Relai, for a wide‑ranging conversation about Bitcoin adoption in Europe, the importance of financial literacy, and how Relai aims to make saving in Bitcoin radically simple.

Who is Julian Liniger?

Liniger, a Swiss entrepreneur, studied business administration and psychology, gained early experience in banking and consulting, and spent time in Australia and Silicon Valley before committing to building in Bitcoin. He discovered Bitcoin in 2015—“before it was cool”—and over several years moved from curiosity to conviction, ultimately founding Relai as his third venture and focusing on Bitcoin full‑time.

The Rabbit Hole: Two “Aha” Moments

Liniger describes a gradual journey rather than a sudden conversion. His first “aha” came in early 2017, when he recognized Bitcoin’s durability and network effects, concluding it was “not going away.” The second arrived in 2020, as Relai prepared to launch: he became convinced that Bitcoin is the signal—and most other cryptocurrencies are noise—cementing Relai’s Bitcoin‑only approach.

The Financial Literacy Gap

A central thread in the episode is the lack of personal finance education worldwide. Liniger underscores that even in countries with strong education systems, people rarely learn basics like “what is money,” “what is saving,” and “how to store value over time.” For him, books and thoughtful economic perspectives (including Austrian economics) often serve as catalysts to help people grasp why Bitcoin matters.

What Is Relai?

Relai bills itself as Europe’s easiest Bitcoin app, designed to be fast, non‑custodial, and Bitcoin‑only. Users in 40 European countries can download the app and buy Bitcoin in minutes—without registration or identity verification—and the coins arrive straight into a self‑custody wallet. That simplicity, Liniger argues, lowers the barrier to trying Bitcoin and encourages long‑term saving.

Dollar‑Cost Averaging, Explained

For new savers, Liniger champions dollar‑cost averaging (DCA): investing a fixed fiat amount (e.g., weekly) regardless of price. Because Bitcoin is volatile in the short term, DCA naturally buys more when prices are low and less when they’re high, smoothing the average purchase price over time. Relai’s users largely adopt this, often setting automated weekly purchases in small amounts to build a long‑term position.

Lightning: From “Too Early” to “Almost Ready”

The discussion also touches on integrating the Lightning Network. Liniger outlines why non‑custodial Lightning at Relai’s scale has been technically and legally complex, but notes the ecosystem’s rapid progress. He sees compelling third‑party solutions maturing, pointing toward an experience where users can buy via card and receive Bitcoin instantly over Lightning—bringing speed and near‑zero fees to everyday transactions.

Adoption Lessons: Europe, El Salvador, and Everyday On‑Ramps

While El Salvador’s legal‑tender move gave millions an immediate on‑ramp, Liniger stresses that adoption pathways are personal: some people arrive via tech curiosity, others via economics or game theory, and many through speculation first. The common denominator is easy access—frictionless ways to try Bitcoin, then learn and build conviction over time.

Orange‑Pilling, Close to Home

Liniger shares how he “orange‑pilled” his own family, gifting his younger brother a small amount of Bitcoin years ago and helping him set up a savings plan, with his mother later doing the same. For him, the mission is simple: give everyone—from teenagers to grandparents—a fast, cheap, and simple way to try Bitcoin and save for the long run.

The Takeaway

This episode captures Bitcoin’s dual story: a technology steadily hardening over time, and a human journey that often starts with curiosity or FOMO but matures into long‑term saving and self‑custody. Relai’s bet is that reducing friction—no accounts, no custodians, and automated DCA—can help millions in Europe build sound money habits one small purchase at a time.